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Biting All The Apples
Biting All The Apples is an unhinged bookclub-ish conversation that channels the sassy wisdom of long dead victorian feminists to analyze the puritanical influences still messing with our world today. We start off with the 1895 best seller "The Woman's Bible" by Elizabeth Cady Stanton. Each week we cover their 19th century feminist analysis of a book in the bible and ponder, laugh, and cry over the similarities to the issues of today.
This is a great listen for anyone interested in the patriarchal influence in religion, politics, and social order. As well as anyone that is GenX or any generation, anyone that likes comedy, books, history, and thinkin.
Biting All The Apples
The Unnatural Arrogance of Mark and Luke and Everyone Else
In this seriously-worth-your-time episode, we explore how Elizabeth Cady Stanton's 1895 "The Women's Bible" called out religious justifications for female subordination that mirror today's Christian nationalist rhetoric.
Here's what you get:
• Examining the books of Mark and Luke, which address marriage, divorce, and women's status in early Christianity
• Stanton reveals how the New Testament made divorce laws even more restrictive for women
• Challenging the prioritization of self-sacrifice over self-development for women
• Ellen Battelle Dietrick uncovers women erased from Christian history like Thecla and Paula
• Documentation of how a woman's crucial role in creating the Latin Bible was deliberately erased
• Connecting Biblical patriarchy to economic systems that benefit from women's unpaid labor
• Identifying religious hypocrisy when rules are selectively applied to control rather than uplift
A great way to resist authoritarianism is visible and enthusiastic support of independent media. Like, comment, subscribe and share this podcast - democracy depends on it.
Credits
Recorded at Troubadour Studios in Lansing, MI
Audio Engineer Corey DeRushia
Edited by Rie Daisies at Nighttime Girlfriend Studio
Music: ‘Shifting pt. 2 (instrumental)’ by Rie Daisies
Have some feedback? Praise? General thoughts? Know how to pronounce something? Are you a religious scholar? We'd love to hear from you. Leave a message right from your phone or computer by clicking here. Recordings may be used in future episodes.
Website
You know it's hard times.
Speaker 2:It is hard times.
Speaker 1:It's hard to be uplifting in America. Maybe it's good somewhere, where, somewhere, some other, where, actually I?
Speaker 2:think it's global. We're in a global situation.
Speaker 1:So maybe someone on a spaceship from another planet they might have figured it out.
Speaker 2:Maybe Come pick us up. We're here. If you're receiving this broadcast, If you hear us we will come with you. It's the podcast that Slap Happy's serpent warned you about.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Biting All the Apples where two gals discuss one radical book, the best-selling critical and comedic masterpiece from 1895, the Women's Bible by Elizabeth Cady Stanton.
Speaker 2:I'm Sarah Kay, I'm Joanna V. Just when you thought the US couldn't get any more Bible-y, the past week has brought a whole slew of videos from Christian nationalists, so-called pastors and squawkers right Squawkers.
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 2:Are they spreading a gospel of caring for each other, one of feeding people? Come on now Encouraging spiritual introspection? Of course not. They're using the Bible to justify their smooth-brained opinions on how the subjugation of women is necessary.
Speaker 1:So sad 2025.
Speaker 2:I know Some may say that it's just a rogue interpretation of the gospel, but we here at Biting All the Apples have shown you over 18 episodes just how much female subservience is already baked in. It's right there, ready for scooping and serving, so easy. I know, I know, and in this episode we're going to serve you some strong messages from our Victorian feminists that called out these problems 130 years ago. We're getting into the responses to the books of Mark and Luke. They cover passages related to marriage, subservience and hypocrisy. Stanton repeats her call for women to see self-development as their highest duty, and Ellen Batil Dietrich drops some crazy knowledge and I'm not kidding about a group of women from Paul's days that have gone unrecognized.
Speaker 1:She rocked it out.
Speaker 2:But you know we're here to recognize, and that's what we are going to do, right after you hear our important disclaimers. You can't move on without the disclaimers, I know you can't Biting All the Apples covers analysis of religious texts.
Speaker 1:Some listeners that are religious out of the need for the illusion of certainty may find the content offensive. Biting All the Apples also discusses historic texts and feminist movements. We recognize that individuals, groups and alternative movements have been left out of mainstream history. We will note that whenever possible, we are open to additional information provided to us in the spirit of expanding knowledge. Now, if you want to just not expand it and debate our knowledge, go ahead.
Speaker 2:That's cool, try us Do it. Try it. Yeah, step up, step it up, pull up. As they say, ooh, pull up. I haven't heard that one, I like that.
Speaker 1:Do it. I'm going to use it. Pull up, talk to us, pull on up. We want to hear what you have to say. You know, bring it on. You can even leave a voice message.
Speaker 2:We're just trying to make expanding knowledge like fashionable.
Speaker 1:Right, bring it back.
Speaker 2:We're trying to make it really cool. Bring Ooh, do you remember those?
Speaker 1:No, but I'm like jazz was cutting edge. Jazz hands, jazz hands Still cool.
Speaker 2:Being jazzy is cool. Jazzy, jazzy Jane, that's what they call me. I know, I think. Speaking of jazz and riffing, I can't wait to get riffing on this new testament. I know, I know I've been waiting. What do you think reading these books of?
Speaker 1:boys. First of all, I never connected how this is all tied into one little book. What's all tied in Our suppression in the fall.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, thank you. Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously I knew there was a problem in certain religious parts of life, but like I didn't realize that it's been affecting our governments for like forever.
Speaker 2:It completely informed the culture, yeah, of stuff, of stuff.
Speaker 1:Of life. I'm an academic Of life. You know what?
Speaker 2:It really informed the stuff of the stuff and it's just been Lots of stuff.
Speaker 1:It's crazy. I'm drowning in it.
Speaker 2:And maybe this is why I want somebody to tell us is it. Are we? Were we just naive? Or does everybody know this, or we are we reading it wrong? But the more that I'm going through this book, that's exactly how I feel too, where you see, every cultural norm that we have in America is based off of these, like Christian ideas of this hierarchical thing, yeah, and the subservience of women.
Speaker 1:And it's not the good stuff that's in the actual Bible.
Speaker 2:None of the good stuff.
Speaker 1:None of the good stuff stuck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's bonkers.
Speaker 1:And that women have known this the whole time and it just keeps getting suppressed, like I just read that today. That Abigail just a second ago I was looking something up Abigail Adams was like her husband Adam Adam John John Adams.
Speaker 2:I was like maybe she had two husbands. I don't know how progressive was she.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was like listen, you got to make women part of this. And they were just like listen, you got to make women part of this. And they were just like no, never going to happen. Like literally she brought it up and was like hey, john, women should have a right to say. We'll never stand for it. And the next year all the colonies were like we got to pass laws. These ladies be talking. And they immediately passed laws in 1777 where women can vote. I learned that today.
Speaker 2:I wish you could see my brain exploding on this podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah like legit. You look just like the emoji. I can't. It's crazy to see Sarah.
Speaker 2:I did not know. Yeah, you're like. I hope she can finish this episode. I hope her hair comes back, but I didn't know that either. Right Direct quote from her. They were like actually we need to crack this down to make sure they can't vote. So it wasn't even.
Speaker 1:But no those ladies back then are like hey, we're doing everything Right, and if you want us to keep doing everything, then we should at least have a say. And they were like no.
Speaker 2:So what I'm putting together here is that the subjugation of women is directly tied to the economic system, and that's why they're using that part of the Bible, because if it really was about following gospel, just as important would be making sure things like justice and mercy and compassion Were right up there and helping people Should be right there in the law. To me, it just proves that this is used to reinforce this economic system that is so oppressive.
Speaker 1:And it's crazy because it's not like it was. It was right from the beginning, right?
Speaker 2:or I keep on seeing all these call outs like oh look, another hypocritical christian, you know right, winger. And then people are like he's not a, he's not a good christian. Or oh, here's another bad christian. And my question is at what point do we just say that it's Christianity that's bad?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah or that's fake.
Speaker 2:It's fake Because it's how many. I mean, I've seen it so many times Like there's always a senator or a pastor and they're getting caught for kitty fiddling, and there's a website that keeps track of this stuff, by the way. So I'm not just like talking BS.
Speaker 1:Well, you see it, even locally, everybody knows locally the way. So I'm not just like talking well, you see it, even local. Everybody you know locally. You can just look around your wherever you live locally, yeah, and look up some stories um where things are going wrong. You're gonna find the religious folks that are that's messing with the kids.
Speaker 2:It's that's right it's not the ladies and if it's not messing with kids, they're warmongers, or saying things like we need to round up homeless people get them out. Get them out of my face, yeah, so so I'm like we're gonna kick the homeless people out of where, like the earth?
Speaker 1:like they're homeless.
Speaker 2:This is where we are and that's why it's like they're not interested in people unless they can they have some sort of capital value Same thing with like the abortion right Like, because it's not about babies, it's about the economy and free labor. Free labor, yeah, free labor. Women in traditional wifey roles completely give a bajillion dollars worth of free labor.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, and how much is the creation of a human worth.
Speaker 2:You know Also that takes women out of the workforce. Don't even get me started, even though I'm started. No, I mean I'm with you. So I wonder it could take a way longer time. But when I brought these videos, I think it is a guy's name, doug Wilson. Should I just make that up? The guy, the white haired dude with the beard, where he was like women are people who have people or something.
Speaker 2:Just. I don't even almost want to signify it because I stand by what I said last week, where I think these people getting platformed is just, it's just stupid. Yeah, they're just. Because on one hand, it shouldn't be shocking, because I'm like that's exactly what a lot of men think of women and have for a long time.
Speaker 1:Obviously John Adams. Look, his wife said that and he was like hey guys, we got to pass some laws, we got to be on shutdown. Them women be talking. That's not good. These women have ideas. I don't like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't like it yeah, I don't want that sass, that's the other thing. Speaking of our minds getting blown, it wasn't until all of the kids' books they have. Now there's so many more that uncover hidden women's history. Yes, whereas actually a woman that discovered DNA and sharks and astrophysics and stuff.
Speaker 2:So I'm buying these books for my nieces and I'm reading along with them. I'm like I didn't. Nobody told me any of this and they're just happily like do, do, do, do, do, yeah, which also is why I'm like you cannot convince me that these girls we know are going to take any of this. Yeah, I know because they've been brought up on these books. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:They've been brought up on these books and you know thinking my, you know my little people in my life have been brought up on them. Yeah, and they're going to be like no man found a dinosaur. I read the book yeah, it was a lady and the men took it all, and even little boys, when they hear that, are like why would that happen? You know why would what happened? Why would they? Why would they say that the woman didn't find it right?
Speaker 2:that's because yeah they'd be like, why, what if the lady like they don't even care about that stuff?
Speaker 1:yeah, actually all the things in history. Like if you brought a book about the civil rights right and you and you brought it up and you talked just real, basically to like a five-year-old, they would be like why would anyone do that? And you're like that's a great question, it's so true, it's so true. And like I do not know, right, right, but stick with that little one.
Speaker 2:Hold on to that. I'm like where's our segue?
Speaker 1:How about this?
Speaker 2:You know what? You ready to try something new. Abrupt segue Bible. The Book of Mark makes up just three pages, that's it, but it does have some good stuff.
Speaker 1:I like the ladies are like well, you know, they say a lot of the same things. They kind of do. They're like I'm just going to pick out some things.
Speaker 2:They're like I'm just going to pick some stuff, I just want you to know these guys.
Speaker 1:They say a lot of the same thing.
Speaker 2:So they have. The first passage they pick is Mark 3, verses 31 through 35. So it's real short and sweet, your spiritual family being stronger than your family of blood.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. They give a little passage where Jesus is like, basically he's talking to people and he's like someone asked about his mom and he's like we're all together. Yeah, mom's here, Stop talking about that, it's not important, because we're all here talking about important stuff and the ladies are just like oh, just tossing your mom aside.
Speaker 2:huh Jesus yeah.
Speaker 1:Elizabeth, the lady that your mom aside, huh, jesus, yeah, elizabeth, the lady that didn't even maybe she didn't even want to have babies, right, and now you can't give her like a little bit of prominence.
Speaker 2:Right, but that's what, elizabeth, do you have? This I have, where she says many of the ancient writers criticized Mary severely, yes, for trying to exercise control over Jesus, assuming rightful authority over him. And then she brings up this is so impressive. All of these Is ancient, the right word.
Speaker 1:I mean we're talking like 155 BC.
Speaker 2:BC. Yeah, that's ancient yeah. I'm like that's ancient. I'd say ancient, I'm using it. I don't know if I'm using it in the historical academic. Come on, come on. The okay. What historical academic? Come on, come on, it's ancient, I know was it theo philact?
Speaker 1:yeah, that sounds like a prescription now.
Speaker 2:He's actually one of the most recent one, and that's like from 1055 she writes he taxes her with vainglory is that a great word fabulous word I looked it up and I was like, oh, it's like vainglory, yeah like it's actually one of those words, that's just. It's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1:I was like is that something different?
Speaker 2:no, it's like, it's just what it is. And then Tertullian accuses her of ambition in saint chris.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I know.
Speaker 2:I'm like bring it in chrisostom yeah, I'm like chrysanthemum in piety and disbelief. And Whitby says it is plain that this is a protest against idolatrous worship of Mary.
Speaker 1:They're like. You can't like this lady that bore the Lord of Lords.
Speaker 2:Why? What does she say here? She was generally admitted to be a woman of good character and worthy of all praise. But whatever she was, it ill becomes those who believe that she was the mother of God to criticize her as they would an ordinary mortal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is lovely, like how dare you? How dare you? She's the mother of Jesus.
Speaker 2:Some like famous priest is like well, she seems a little full of herself.
Speaker 1:She's a little okay, okay, she's so proud that she gave birth to Jesus. How, what vain glory, like what, yeah, like, that's pretty big, it's pretty, pretty cool. And then later it gets kind of funny, because in the same Bible, mary forgets that she.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like and just moving. Is that in Mark, or we're almost there, we have the um, for whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother and my sister and mother.
Speaker 1:So Mary's like out, she's out. She's like yeah, great job, but you're the same. The next passage.
Speaker 2:The nitty gritty. The nitty gritty is from Mark 10, 2 through 9. And the topic Divorce D-I-V-O-R-C. Yeah, divorce.
Speaker 1:Divorce.
Speaker 2:New Testament makes it way harder for women, Way harder. That's what was promised in the intro. Elizabeth was like don't think you're about to get liberated with this new tea it gets worse, You're going to be wishing for the vengeful God, Because these what'd she say before?
Speaker 1:these apostles were way worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tell us what the Well.
Speaker 1:basically the New Testament goes in you get married, you become one, and only the man gets rights.
Speaker 2:Basically.
Speaker 1:Basically.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 1:That sums it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the passage is like well, moses was cool with divorce, right, yeah, that's my summary.
Speaker 1:It's your summary Bible summaries by Sarah Kay.
Speaker 2:This is where the famous what, therefore, god hath joined together. Let not man put us under. I do like that. Some of these, some of this stuff, I'm like that's good, that's good.
Speaker 1:I mean it's powerful right Like, if you just like said those things like that today people would be like dang, Okay, we definitely need to use asunder much more often. We need to resurrect some of these Fabulous word.
Speaker 2:Fabulous word Like tear our democracy asunder.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So and then the ladies have a lot to say because obviously divorce was really bad. Then I went and looked up like the history of rights, just kind of was trying to see. But it started way back like women right away in America were like immediately rights were taken away. It's that economic thing.
Speaker 2:Economics yeah.
Speaker 1:And actually like the only time they gave us rights was they were like oh, you can own property, but like hopefully you're married and your husband will get it, yeah.
Speaker 2:And we can take it away from you at any time. We can just call you a witch.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah. So they go off and say how different the New Testament is on this particular subject. And really quality writing here, oh so good Petty foggers.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh right. Life with Jesus was too short and his mission too stern to parley with petty foggers, so he gives them a clear-cut, unmistakable definition as to what marriage is.
Speaker 1:So did you? But basically they're saying men and women should be judged by the same morals. How could this big thing be changed? Ridiculousness, so it should be perfect. Equality of sexes and social relations, of a marriage, right, and? But she says this is Elizabeth, they were. She talked about current event in England, which I thought was fantastic. The thing from the Bible is like a woman may marry her husband's brother, but a man may not marry his wife's sister, right? Which is just like a weird lie Like that's just like a weird thing.
Speaker 1:So she said the parliament here has had the same thing come up for generations. Like we got to change this. It doesn't make any sense Ever and anon. They take it up, look at it with their opera glasses, air their grandfather's old platitudes over it, give a sickly smile at some well-worn witticism or drop a tear at a pathetic wine from some bishop. Then they lay the bill reverently back in its sacred pigeon hole for a period of rest. Like this bill will go nowhere Because it'll give women's rights.
Speaker 2:I love that passage. It's like let me tell you what happens when we try to get stuff done Just living in grandfather's world and giving love to this bishop that's going back in its sacred pigeonhole. Ooh, that sounds dirty. Right before then she says if this rule of the perfect equality of the sexes were observed in all social relations, the marriage problem might easily be solved. But with one code of morals for man and another for women, we are involved in all manner of complications.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're making life more difficult.
Speaker 2:Really. That sums everything up again.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:It is nuts how. That is the problem today, today, today, today Today. It's ridiculous and it goes to other things than just marriage and divorce too, if you're having different morality assigned To your body parts. Basically Right. What Canada was to the southern slaves under the old regime, a state with liberal divorce laws is to fugitive wives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and fugitive wives. Isn't that funny? We is to fugitive wives. Yeah, and fugitive wives Isn't that funny? We had to be fugitives and usually, like you're escaping, like really terrible men that are like beating you and stuff, Right, you couldn't even get a divorce then yeah. So they yeah, and they're like come on, make it equal, Make it make sense.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the last section in the book of Mark is Mark 12, 41 through 44.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, this is really good. This is about rich people giving money and poor people giving money and how different it is with the intention. Oh yeah, with the intention, yeah, and then so some poor lady.
Speaker 2:Poor lady. They don't give her a name.
Speaker 1:Again, it's just a poor lady. Yeah, don't worry about it, she's a widow. Her husband died but she put all she had, a farthing which makes me laugh because I'm a child, right, it kind of sounds like farting, but it's farting, and it's a little bit of money. Anyway, that's just my immaturity. But she puts it in and then jesus says well, he calls his disciples together and he says unto them verily, that's what he says, that's how jesus, yeah, verily, I say unto you that this poor widow hath cast more in than all they which have cast into the treasury, for all they did cast in of their abundance, but she, of her want, did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:So these rich people are putting in money, probably more than her, but he was like doesn't matter, she's like giving all she has, right so? And so the lady is not a sacrifice for the rich people, just like these people that are saying that they're christian, they're up there, um, they're just saying it, it's not like they're it's not like they're worried about their eternal life. I don't think right.
Speaker 2:I don't think they have any worries I forgot who it was that was talking about. If people were actually like jesus christians, they would be walking around in sackcloths, yeah, and just helping people. I mean like, come on, sackcloth it.
Speaker 1:If you really are as Christian as you say you are and you want the whole world to be Christian, then you best be walking around in your sackcloth and you better be washing the feet.
Speaker 1:Some dirty, nasty feet. You better get down there and wash them. That's right. So, but the ladies talk, they're like. The small contribution was of no special use to the treasury of the church, but as an act of self-sacrifice it was more real value in estimating character, Jesus, with his intuition, saw the motives of the giver as well as the act. And we just need to get rid of money, Can we? We're going to get on that. We're going to get on that. That's my next mission.
Speaker 2:I'm going to do that tomorrow.
Speaker 1:I'm going to the temple and I'm flipping yes, we're going to do some table flipping. I'm flipping the tables. None of this money.
Speaker 2:I want to do a whole video series where we walk into banks and see what we can flip over no-transcript so. Elizabeth. As we've learned throughout this book, she loves talking about self-development. It's her thing. I think that's she's like. This is the takeaway, ladies. So she writes this woman belonging to an impoverished class was trained of self-development. They will not so readily expend all their forces in serving others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think when you serve yourself, you can be a better person.
Speaker 2:This was 130 years ago, woman who spends all her time in churches, with priests, in charities, neglects to cultivate her own natural gifts to make the most of herself as an individual, in the scale of being Irresponsible soul whose place no other can fill, is worse than an infidel. Dang. Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice should be women's motto.
Speaker 1:Henceforward. All right, so maybe you haven't done it before, but henceforward from today when you hear this yes, I forgot.
Speaker 2:You know the sentence right before that she's responding. Paul says that a husband who does not provide for his own household is worse than an infidel.
Speaker 1:And she's like no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, let me tell you what's worse. Yes, quit giving yourself to these men and doing everything for them and making them look good. Do you, girl? Do you work on you? Come on, who knew elizabeth katie stanton, the first self-help, so book of luke.
Speaker 2:good name, I like the name luke. I do like the name Luke, mm-hmm. So what do I have here? I said well-stricken in years that's funny.
Speaker 1:That's funny. I highlighted it too because I think it's just funny. Who wrote it?
Speaker 2:In the book of Luke, luke 1, 5 through 15. But one of the passages says and they had no child and they both were now well stricken in years.
Speaker 1:I highlighted that because I'm like I'm well stricken in years. I feel it every time. If I sit a long time, I stand up and I say I have been well stricken in years.
Speaker 2:That's what my notes are like. Well stricken in years is how I will refer to myself when people ask my age.
Speaker 1:I love how we love the same thing. I love old timey talk and then the same thing I love old I love old-timey talk. And then the only other thing that I highlighted in this section.
Speaker 2:So, book of Luke, they're telling a story, okay, so this is a story about Elizabeth and Zacharias getting you know they were well-stricken. They were worse they didn't have a kid, but then they got one, but then an angel comes down and is like guess which angel I am? Same angel that talked to Mary.
Speaker 1:Mary Right. So it's Gabriel, whatever Gabriel, there's no Gabriel.
Speaker 2:Oh Girl Girl, you're going to hell.
Speaker 1:Girl good luck getting into heaven.
Speaker 2:You don't even know the angels. I don't know the angels, so they're like you're going to have a baby, it's going to be cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And guess who that baby was? John Bill Baptist Right, and I learned him and baby Jay were cousins, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, sounds like John was, you know, a little contender to be the Lord. That's kind of how they wrote it. It's funny Like could have been him, Could have been him. He was also sent by an angel.
Speaker 2:He's going to be sent by an angel and the passage they picked is because when the baby was born, everybody's like you got to name him. You know you got to name him Tristan, I'm just kidding. What's his name? You got to name him. You know the dad?
Speaker 1:Same dad, they were saying you got to name him the same name as the dad, same name as the dad and the dad saw the angel too. Mm-hmm, right, but people are just focusing on the woman, right? They're like you got to name the dad. Well, he can't speak because apparently the angel was like whoo Right and he just like couldn't talk. But, Elizabeth could talk and and finally he had the husband had to be like and he wrote it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he said the name is John, the name is John, and so that's what the ladies are like super stupid, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, why did it take him Exactly Writing I?
Speaker 2:know Like, why not?
Speaker 1:just like hello, I saw an angel. He told me the name is John. Hello, Right, why do you need to hear from my husband?
Speaker 2:And everybody else is just like what do you know?
Speaker 1:I like this because I just like the wording of the Bible language. I just wanted to read this because I love this. I feel like we should talk this way my soul doth magnify the Lord that he has thus honored his handmaiden. Henceforth, all generations shall call me blessed.
Speaker 2:That's Mary Henceforth, henceforth we shall speak this way why. The next passage is great because this is when Jesus. He was just like a tween, he was 12. He was at a tween, Great age. You know his parents take him to. They do an annual go to the Trip to the temple. Trip to the temple for an annual situation. Some probably prayer, Prayer something, and, from what I understand, Mary and Joseph get all the way home and they're like oh, dude, where's our kid? Where'd he go? Where'd he go?
Speaker 1:They can't find him we lost a tween. But Jesus had stayed back to talk with his, the doctors and the, obviously, all the men, all the men, right, he stays back.
Speaker 2:And Mary and Joseph were like a little confused, but anyways.
Speaker 1:But the ladies respond and we all know that story, at least I remember that story, because I was like oh wow, he's so smart, right.
Speaker 2:Everybody was amazed by him, and that is that's. That's the point in the Bible where they're like oh, so we can see that he's starting to fulfill the prophecy. And this is Elizabeth. I love this Elizabeth's response yeah, Go ahead. Where she's talking about, where she's like oh yeah, they didn't know.
Speaker 1:It is often said that he was disputing with the doctors, which the commentators say gives the wrong impression. He was modestly asking questions. Neither Mary nor Joseph remembered nor fully understood what the angel had told them concerning the mission of their child. Neither did they comprehend the answer of Jesus, However, he went back with them to Nazareth and he was subject to them in all things, working at the carpenter's trade until they entered his mission, when they're just like. It cracks me up, because they're like didn't an angel tell you you were having the Son of God? And you were like oh, I don't know where he could be. I can't believe he's not hanging out with the kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like an angel, yeah, and just 12 years ago, mary. The other part, elizabeth, mentions how little is said of the childhood and youth of Jesus and we should have expected fuller information on so extraordinary a subject. I even thought that as a kid where I'm like, so, just like nothing. And then he's 12. If we know other people are connected. We know about um elizabeth getting pregnant with john. We're like, so there are some people who could have covered some of that info I'm just saying right and like it's very sus.
Speaker 1:So angels are coming giving people babies right and then we just 12 years go by right, we just normal life, right Right.
Speaker 2:We don't know anything about it, we didn't write anything about you know like I mean the king wanted to kill him.
Speaker 1:and then 12 years, nothing, right.
Speaker 2:Nobody else wanted to kill him. Radio Gaga I know.
Speaker 1:Radio silence. Like where did it go? It's a little like yeah so yeah the yeah, the ladies are just like. It doesn't make any sense. It was a great mistake that some angel had not made clear to Mary the important character and mission of her son, that she might not have been a seeming hindrance on so many occasions. Like lady, what? Yeah? You were literally told. I know how important your child is. I know what are you doing yeah, get it over.
Speaker 2:Um, and it's not like somebody came down and was saying, like your son is going to be very gifted at math. They're like you're gonna have the son of god. Immaculate conception, and she forgot it, so just a little point, Joseph.
Speaker 1:have you seen Jesus? I thought he was playing soccer.
Speaker 2:I also like this passage that they talk about and this is for our Biblers. This is Luke 13, 11 through 17. We're getting to our first miracles. Yeah, we get some miracles here. We got a woman which had a spirit of infirmary 18 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was all bent.
Speaker 2:And she shows up at the old temple. Yeah, she can't even stand up On the Sabbath Hot mess. Sunday, sunday, day of rest, and Jesus is like get on over here, girl, girl.
Speaker 1:Stand up, stand up.
Speaker 2:Just like in the tv show yep, yep, and they put jesus and this old infirm woman on the jumbotron?
Speaker 1:yes, and they and he was like you're healed you're healed and she popped up like a yes and she said I love you, jesus. That's down in the book. This is just purely extra.
Speaker 2:This is extra from what I believe happened. And then some other people that were there, who were not infirmed and just consider themselves like super cool Christians, were like, oh my God, why are you working on?
Speaker 1:the Sabbath oh my God, Nothing about. Wow, that was crazy. Oh yeah, that's the other thing, Forget the miracle. No commentary on like oh wow, she hasn't been able to walk in 18 years.
Speaker 2:They're like I thought you weren't supposed to work on the Sabbath.
Speaker 1:And then Jesus is like listen, I can't believe you think you're the son of God and you're working Listen.
Speaker 2:The Lord then answered him and said Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you, on the Sabbath, loose his ox or his? Ass from the stall and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham whom Satan hath bound to lo these 18 years, be looked or be have like mercy on the Sabbath day? You're considering that work. You're?
Speaker 1:going to let your cows out to get some water?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But this lady can't have a miracle.
Speaker 2:Right, and of all the stuff that we've read so far of the New Testament, this to me seems so relevant to today, because it's talking about hypocrisy.
Speaker 1:What I like, though, is like even in their Bible clips, when Jesus spoke, they were ashamed. That's what we're missing today, though.
Speaker 2:Right, they were like humbled, but so he's calling out. This is so relevant to today, where people they're like getting to this legalism or like they're like that's the rules, said this and that and Jesus is like. Where are you Like? How are you interpreting this?
Speaker 1:So I also think it shows yeah, and compassion over these.
Speaker 2:Like strict rules. This is so relevant the Sabbath day. Pharisees are not all dead yet. While more rational people are striving to open libraries, art galleries and concert halls on Sundays, a class of religious bigots Religious bigots, she said it 1895. A class of religious bigots are endeavoring to close up on that day all places of entertainment for the people. Close up on that day all places of entertainment for the people. The large class of citizens, shut up in factories, in mercantile establishments, in offices, in and shops all the week, should have the liberty to enjoy themselves in all rational amusements on Sunday.
Speaker 1:I had never even thought of that as like a class issue. Right yeah, the only day, or?
Speaker 2:connecting this, so that hypocrisy they have one day and we see that as an example of what we're talking about. These people, these people and I do mean it in the most derogatory mean way these people, people using these rules when it's a way that they can shun other people, yeah, so it's like selective. We see this so much today, just, like with the homeless people, Isn't Elizabeth?
Speaker 1:she's hip, she's hip. And to think those people? There was no labor laws and the only reason they got Sunday off was for religious purposes. But they're like you get that day off, don't do anything Right? That's right the heck. I watched you all anything Right? That's right the heck. I watched you all week, Right? And why?
Speaker 2:My wife's working in your house and then to Cleaning your baby's diapers Right, and then to judge, like certain activities just like that, like oh you can't heal, or that lady wanted to be healed, but I can do. You can do other things but not some. It's ridiculous and Elizabeth points out it's classist, it is, and it's also back to the religious part. It isn't very um. I mean, if you're supposedly christian, you want to celebrate all of the like beauties of life, like in nature, and appreciating knowledge and libraries and taking care of your temple, taking care of your body talks about that.
Speaker 2:They should be out at parks.
Speaker 1:They should be working, keeping their body healthy, but they can't leave their house Right.
Speaker 2:How are they?
Speaker 1:taking care of that temple.
Speaker 2:All healthy sports in the open air, music, in parks, popular lectures, all the school buildings should be encouraged and protected by law. Amen, amen sister.
Speaker 1:Amen, I didn't think about it as a class Because I was like I kind of thought it was a nice thing. But if nothing's open you can't do anything. But nowadays the reason that I liked it was I was like, oh, those people don't have to work.
Speaker 2:You know Right.
Speaker 1:Like they get it off, Right, but back then you couldn't even go to the park. You were Then, you couldn't even go to the park. You're just supposed to literally like sit and read the Bible, right, like, so, like, even if they didn't, like, if you said nobody works today, great, then we can go to the parks and we can, right, you know, if someone wants to play guitar, we can all sit around. Yeah, strum along, strum along. Bring my bongo Right, I love Jesus bongos. Oh man, I bet he could rock out the bongos. So then we go into Luke 18. Yes, two through seven, basically talking about a judge. That really was not into God, didn't?
Speaker 2:you know, he was like eh.
Speaker 1:I like that summary so this guy's like, and then the rules didn't really apply to him.
Speaker 1:He was like I don't really, I don't, I don't really follow that. And a woman came in, a widow, and said please, someone is attacking me. And she had an adversary. And he was like no, no, go away, go away. But she kept coming back and then kept troubling him go away. But she kept coming back and then kept troubling him and he said finally he's like I'll avenge her, lest by her continual coming weary me. And the Lord said hear what the unjust judge saith, and shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them. So basically, this was about perseverance. If you keep, you know, don't give up. Just keep being a whiner, squeaky wheel.
Speaker 2:Eventually, yeah, get it.
Speaker 1:You'll get your.
Speaker 2:You know, whatever you want, whatever you want, but Elizabeth says that's a little bit of bullshit.
Speaker 1:She's always calling it out. Calling it out, calling, she is she's like. However, however, the condition of the woman in this parable, bowed to the earth with all her disabilities, but because it kind of ties to the section too about the bent woman, right, the condition of this woman in this parable, bowed to earth with all her disabilities, well represents the degraded condition of the sex under every form of government and of religion the world over. But, unlike her, women still in many latitudes make their appeals in vain at cathedral altars and in the halls of legislation. And there's nothing like we persevere, we persevere. They keep shoving this Bible in our face, saying no. So great parable, great parable. Where's the follow through? Exactly? Come on, you said it Exactly. Do we believe?
Speaker 2:it, let's go fellas. On the same passage, we have the response from EBD. I love her, ellen. Ellen Battelle Dietrich, she was the one that passed away at 48.
Speaker 1:We learned about her last week and did way more than I've ever done. I have, I mean let me tell you what Under. Thing.
Speaker 2:I'll underline she's so cool I do got to get my hands on her other book.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, because I mean I bet it's just on fire, I bet it's on fire, I bet it's fire.
Speaker 2:The sentiment concerning the equality of male and female which Paul avowed to the Galatians is perfectly in accord with what Luke reports of Jesus's own custom. It will be remembered that the chief adherents of Paul accepted only this report, and this only partially, as worthy of credit, and therein we find the statement that many female ministers had accompanied Jesus and the male ministers as they wandered, in Salvation Army fashion, throughout every city and village. Preaching Women were with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were with them Preaching the word.
Speaker 2:It is true that we now find a qualifying passage in reference to the female ministers, namely which ministered unto him their substance.
Speaker 1:I don't know if this is Luke. We've got to look it up. Trust us, but it says Trust us, but it says Luke, chapter 8. I trust the ladies, yeah, so I know it's there, luke chapter 8, verse 3.
Speaker 2:But this is plainly one of those numerous marginal comments made at a late date when all the original manuscripts had disappeared. I like how she puts that in. She's like so, by the way, we don't even have the original stuff. Yeah, so this is all poppycock by men who had doubtless lost knowledge of women's original equality in the ministry, for Ignatius of Antioch, one of the earliest Christian writers, expressly affirms that deacons were not ministers of meats and drinks, but ministers of the church of God.
Speaker 1:So what does that mean? I'm like I want to be a minister of meats and drinks, but ministers of the church of God.
Speaker 2:So what?
Speaker 1:does that?
Speaker 2:mean, I'm like I want to be a minister of meats and drinks.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming, like gatherings. You're not ministers, just to bring people together. You're supposed to be following the word of God, right, and you're changing the word of God. You know what I mean, okay.
Speaker 2:Now, that's making sense. But just to say like I mean women were there they were erased, but they were there out ministering, and that's where I cannot tell you how impressed, and maybe I am easily impressed, I don't know, I don't think so. Nope, I need a big list of ladies' names like Thelka, paula, esthoshium, marcella, melanie, susanna. This is reminding me of how you like it, daddy. How you like it, daddy?
Speaker 1:How you like it. You know what I'm talking about. I do not know that song. I got a little bit of love in my heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got all the names.
Speaker 1:That one I know.
Speaker 2:Okay, but they were women of wealth.
Speaker 1:All those ladies.
Speaker 2:Virgin heiresses for the means of sustaining life and fellowship. So they were women of wealth who both gave themselves and their large fortunes to the establishment of the ethics of Jesus.
Speaker 1:The ethics of Jesus, which no one is following Right.
Speaker 2:Jesus is the only person that has ethics and I looked up some of these ladies, I mean, and they did some work. Yeah, I mean yeah, they like had put some money in, but they were doing like I'm like, don't you?
Speaker 1:make me yeah, I want to know what they do, what they do what they do.
Speaker 2:Okay, just for example, felco was a saint of the early christian church and a follower of paul the apostle so I mean this is these are people and yeah, remember paul started all.
Speaker 1:They tie Paul to all Christianity.
Speaker 2:There you go, although now I'm like hey, paul, did you forget about Thelka? Yeah, what about Thelka? And actually I don't even know if I'm saying that right. Please let me know. She was a young, noble virgin who chose to leave her fiance so she could convert to Christianity and follow Paul.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm and follow Paul Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:It is said that Velka spent three days sitting by her window listening to Paul speak about the Christian God and the importance of living in chastity.
Speaker 1:So she like left. So she was like I'm going to be devout and I'll give you all my money, and I'm just going to spread the word.
Speaker 2:Paul gets sent to prison. She visits him, kissed his bonds and refused to leave him and return to her mother and fiancé. Paul was made to leave the city and Delco was condemned to be burned. She was miraculously saved from burning at the stake by the onset of a storm. Okay, and this is where I love this old stuff, because you ever read about like saints, because I believe that a lot of these women she mentions they become saints. Oh, thank goodness.
Speaker 2:But have you ever read stuff like what is St Catherine and they're like she was disemboweled and you're like what Joan?
Speaker 1:of.
Speaker 2:Arc, yeah, like beheaded, yeah, but she was saved from being burned at the stake by the onset of a storm. She then encountered Paul outside of Iconium and she says I will cut my hair off and I shall follow you wherever you go. And so she travels around with Paul.
Speaker 1:Wait, did she cut her hair because she had to be a man? It doesn't say anything about the hair.
Speaker 2:Maybe she did.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. That's what.
Speaker 2:Joan of Arc did. It could either be a gender thing or about humility. We'll have to ask a biblical scholar, or a feminist scholar would love to know that. Call us so. So there, though. A nobleman tried to grape her rape I just raised like a tick tick term I can say right, you can say it's a podcast, it's a podcast, so he tries that.
Speaker 2:so she fights him off, tears his cloak and knocked the coronet right off his head, which caused her to be put on trial. This is going somewhere. She gets put on trial. She was sentenced to be eaten by wild beasts. Wow, what a way to go.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:Coliseum style? Yeah, I'm just trying to imagine. And like what kind of wild beasts Is it? Like a Chex mix of them, and they're like we're going to get a boar. We starve cats and just put you in a room of wild cats. I need to know more about that, so. But she was again saved by a series of miracles, One of them involved Okay, wait, In one scene she was saved by female beasts like lionesses.
Speaker 1:And they were like no ma'am we can't eat you. And while in the arena so it is.
Speaker 2:It's like in an arena. She baptized herself by throwing herself into a nearby lake full of aggressive seals. What? And the seals were killed by lightning before they could devour her.
Speaker 1:So I'm just saying, if you want, you got to do some stuff. To be a saint, you got to do some stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay, isn't that a fantastic story.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:And why are we just now hearing about it? Thanks, paul, yeah, hey, paul, did you forget about Velka? Yeah, what happened to you, paul? What if it's Velsha? Do you did you forget about felca? Yeah, what, what happened to you, paul? What if it's felsha? Do you think it is it?
Speaker 1:could be, I don't know. It's spelled t-h-e-c-l-a. Thecla. It's probably thecla.
Speaker 2:Okay, I just had to share that story, that is like yeah, and I want to thank ellen for telling us that, yeah, and then there's a whole other list, like, like I said, she mentions paula andotium and it's so cool.
Speaker 1:And she's like what about all these ladies? I thought, if you got I mean if you're made a saint, like, don't some of your bones go underneath some kind of something? So like, are her bones somewhere? They could be up at St Agnes right now.
Speaker 2:We don't even know, we don't even know you need some bones for that miracle. Saint bones, saint bones, the Saint Bones, the devout. And then in normal storytelling it's looked down on to have something just outrageous happen, but for some reason, when you're like, of course, lightning killed the aggressive seals.
Speaker 1:They did. I mean, it makes sense, and why does this stuff?
Speaker 2:not happen anymore. I know there's no wonder left.
Speaker 1:We missed out.
Speaker 2:We missed out on the electrocution of millions of seals right in front of your face and lionesses being like we're not gonna kill her. And then they, then they look at us and they go yeah, so what else did you like about, so oh?
Speaker 1:yes, mrs ebD. So she talks about those ladies. And then they wrote so there's Paula. She just pops out of nowhere, like we're supposed to know who Paula is. Oh, I do know. Do you know who Paula is? Sorry?
Speaker 2:Because I think I don't know how you found her, because it's basically just like hey, there's Paula.
Speaker 1:Like we're like all, all of us know about Paula. She was a Christian writer, that's all I know. I don't even know when she lived.
Speaker 2:Okay, coming back to it. Okay, so Paula was in the biblical era, the fourth century. Paula of Rome was a noble woman who became friend and disciple of Jerome, a prominent Christian, Jerome. Do you know who Jerome is? I do not. Oh darn it. So that's not a helpful note.
Speaker 1:No. I'm like well, you know, paula she was like a disciple of Jerome, but I'm assuming we're just moving along disciples. So some disciples die, new ones come up.
Speaker 2:This says that Jerome was a prominent Christian scholar and she was the one that she was devoted to aestheticism, charity and in the creation of the Latin Vulgate Bible. And just do you know what the Vulgate is? That's a Latin version of the Bible.
Speaker 1:Okay, so she could read Latin and she was the key person.
Speaker 2:She was a significant role in creating it. So that's why EBD is like women. Paula wrote it. Women were up in this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you just erased them. You erased Paula. So she said Paula's greatest work, rarely mentioned in Christendom, and it is significant of the degradation which women suffered at the hands of the church that the time came when churchmen could not believe that she had performed it, even with Jerome's acknowledgement confronting them and consequently erased the word sister accompanying the name Paula and substituting, therefore, the word brother.
Speaker 2:So they just made her a man, what? And that's just the stuff that we know, I mean.
Speaker 1:That is infuriating.
Speaker 2:But she founded a bunch of monasteries in Greece and Rome A juders, and it is an amazing thing to find churchmen still eulogizing Jerome as the author of the Vulgate without the slightest reference to the fact that but for Paula's help, it would not have come into existence. Because he couldn't have written it, but until men this is such a great way to end.
Speaker 1:This is the real.
Speaker 2:And this applies to today to today. But until men and women return to more natural relations, until women cast off their false subserviency, thereby helping men to get rid of their unnatural arrogance, nothing different from the injustice sorry, the injustice Christendom has shown Paula can be looked for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's going to help men too. Look, I'm like it's going to help you. How do I drop this mic? Drop the mic. What if I broke it?
Speaker 2:I almost really that was like, but I mean drop the mic, man, you know, don't?
Speaker 1:you want to get rid of your unnatural?
Speaker 2:arrogance. You know when I was complaining before that it has to. There's probably a deep underlying insecurity, because there has to be some knowing that the only reason that you feel superior is because everybody else has been oppressed. Yeah, so it's an unnatural arrogance, it's unearned.
Speaker 1:And it's like it might not be top of the mind, but it's somewhere there underneath like I'm uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Absolutely To the point is wouldn't you rather go back to natural relations, where you yourself can find your natural talents and aptitude and live your own life, Not just one that's like, well, you're just in charge of everything?
Speaker 1:And honestly.
Speaker 2:Because you're awesome, even though you don't have to prove it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, come on, just because this book says so, because you got a dick, yeah Like, okay, I can go get one now too.
Speaker 2:Oh, we all can get one. Okay, going down to the dick store.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God Going down to the dick store. But like what the heck they just erased I know Women. They just erased us.
Speaker 2:I think that the that mic drop moment is a good. Like, what else do we need to say? Nothing, Nothing. Well, I mean I can say this I'm going to.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm going to say these things to say these things. So the New Testament is indeed proving to be more of a seal the deal for the patriarchy than the liberation we expected. We thought more modern, it'd be better, whatever, but we've still got a ways to go. So we're going to keep walking through the books of the apostles in our next episode and I believe John is on deck.
Speaker 1:He's on deck. He's on deck and I believe John is on deck. He's on deck. He's on deck. Think we missed something? Have something to add? Maybe you're suffering from a ragey feeling because we're so wrong. Reach out, check out the show notes in the episode description for all the high-tech ways to get in touch with us. Don't you want?
Speaker 2:to yeah get in touch, don't forget. A great way to resist authoritarianism is visible and enthusiastic support of independent media. Seriously, I cannot be more serious, that's so true, if you really do want to fight stuff like, definitely should support us, but also other independent journalists and podcasts.
Speaker 1:So important today.
Speaker 2:Right, they're taking it away, so it's quickly, quickly escalating. So it's actually your patriotic duty to like comment.
Speaker 1:Subscribe and share the piss out of this podcast. Like democracy depends on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really make America great yeah.
Speaker 1:Support your independent artists and journalists that are doing the real work.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for listening. Keep shedding that false subserviency, because we know you rule Bye, thank you.
