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Biting All The Apples
Biting All The Apples is an unhinged bookclub-ish conversation that channels the sassy wisdom of long dead victorian feminists to analyze the puritanical influences still messing with our world today. We start off with the 1895 best seller "The Woman's Bible" by Elizabeth Cady Stanton. Each week we cover their 19th century feminist analysis of a book in the bible and ponder, laugh, and cry over the similarities to the issues of today.
This is a great listen for anyone interested in the patriarchal influence in religion, politics, and social order. As well as anyone that is GenX or any generation, anyone that likes comedy, books, history, and thinkin.
Biting All The Apples
You'll Want to Hear About Victorian Feminists and the Kabbalah's Sacred Gender Balance
What if everything you thought you knew about biblical gender roles was based on deliberate mistranslations? We dive deep into a brilliant 1895 feminist analysis that exposes how religious authorities systematically erased the divine feminine from scripture. Frances Ellen Burr, founder of Connecticut's first Women's Suffrage Association, boldly declared "the Bible is an occult book" while revealing how the ancient Kabbalah actually teaches perfect gender equality in the divine nature. Her commentary in Elizabeth Cady Stanton's groundbreaking Woman's Bible demonstrates that Hebrew words like "Elohim" are actually feminine in origin, and that biblical translators deliberately changed feminine references to masculine ones to support patriarchal power structures.
SPECIAL EPISODE NOTE: Episode produced in Bob's Basement Studio with Cindy Clawpurrr the feline mastermind, as animal producer. You may hear her - if you are so blessed.
We explore how Victorian feminists used higher criticism methodology to apply scientific rigor to religious texts, discovering that mystical traditions like the Kabbalah taught that humans were originally androgynous beings and that spiritual wholeness requires both masculine and feminine principles in perfect balance. These 19th-century scholars, supported by religious authorities including Westminster Abbey's Canon Farrar, believed they were witnessing the dawn of a new spiritual awakening that would restore women to their rightful place as equal spiritual authorities.
The parallels between Victorian feminist hopes and our current cultural moment are sobering. These pioneering women believed that education and rational analysis would inevitably lead to gender equality and spiritual enlightenment, yet we're still fighting many of the same battles 130 years later. Their work reminds us that the mystical traditions have always recognized what patriarchal institutions tried to hide: that women hold profound spiritual power and that true divinity encompasses both masculine and feminine aspects. Ready to question everything you thought you knew about religion and gender? Subscribe for more revelations that challenge conventional wisdom and support the independent media exposing hidden histories.
Credits
Recorded at Troubadour Studios in Lansing, MI
Audio Engineer Corey DeRushia
Edited by Rie Daisies at Nighttime Girlfriend Studio
Music: ‘Shifting pt. 2 (instrumental)’ by Rie Daisies
Have some feedback? Praise? General thoughts? Know how to pronounce something? Are you a religious scholar? We'd love to hear from you. Leave a message right from your phone or computer by clicking here. Recordings may be used in future episodes.
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literally everything. I'm just like is she going to be okay? I'm like she's a fucking cat. We used to we had when I was a kid. We had cats. They like went outside all day, I know, and I wasn't. I was fine with that. Yeah, couple didn't come back. Yeah, couple didn't come back.
Speaker 2:My dad would be like maybe the corn bomb, like that would be the worst thing that could happen to your cat or they'd be like maybe they got killed by a raccoon and you're like that's not comforting, that's like why don't you lie to me and say they left and joined a cabal?
Speaker 1:It's the podcast that scheming serpent warned you about.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Biting All the Apples, where two gals discuss one radical book.
Speaker 1:The best-selling critical and comedic masterpiece from 1895, the Woman's Bible by Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Friends. I'm Sarah Kay and I'm Joanna V and hello, beautiful listeners, we're we're.
Speaker 2:We're, we are, we are, we're.
Speaker 1:So glad to have you here with us today for some more modern takes on the Victorian feminist. Scorching hot takes on the Bible Sizzling, so scorching it is. We wrapped up analysis on the Old Testament last week and now we're smack dab in the in-between Limbo, the bardo, the liminal space between the Old and New Testaments.
Speaker 2:Ooh, yeah, here we are Just dancing in the occult.
Speaker 1:And it's right where Stanton places a special commentary section on the Kabbalah. Kabbalah, An esoteric pause, if you will, to highlight this Jewish mystical tradition that explores the nature of God, the universe and humanity's place within it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not a big order or anything it's just giant, just a real small topic tonight.
Speaker 1:It's place within it. Yeah, that's not a big order, or anything, it's just giant.
Speaker 2:Just a real small topic tonight it's the biggest one.
Speaker 1:It likely won't surprise you to hear that the Kabbalah allows for a much more interesting exploration of the role of women. The commentary on the Kabbalah is written by the American suffragist and writer Francis Ellen Burr.
Speaker 2:F-E-B. We talked about her last week a little bit, just because.
Speaker 1:I wanted to know her initials, Feb. The first line in her commentary. The first line makes the claim that the Bible is an occult book and if that doesn't pique your interest, you might be listening to the wrong podcast.
Speaker 2:That's right, I was like whoa, that's right up my alley Bold statement.
Speaker 1:We'll get into all of it Burr's commentary, all of our rabbit holes and do a quick check-in to see how the term occult has changed meaning and usage over the years.
Speaker 2:Right after we remind you all of our friendly disclaimers Kind of have the disclaimers Biting All the Apples. Covers analysis of religious texts. Some listeners that are religious out of the need for the illusion of certainty may find the content offensive. Biting All the Apples also discusses historic texts and feminist movements. We recognize that individuals, groups and alternative movements have been left out of the mainstream history. We will note that whenever possible, we are open to additional information provided to us in the spirit of expanding knowledge.
Speaker 1:As we're doing, occult stuff.
Speaker 2:It's all around us.
Speaker 1:I know we're summoning the spirits. Bring them in Of knowledge, bring them in.
Speaker 2:I love spirits Pulling it from the air.
Speaker 1:I feel it Pulling it from the air Getting all that. But yeah, did you all notice that I tried very hard to say Kabbalah?
Speaker 2:Yes, it was not how I would have said it.
Speaker 1:So that's what I learned when we were looking, when we, together looking into my stuff, I saw some video, some guy from the Great Courses, and he's like actually it's Kabbalah, kabbalah, but the Americanized version is Kabbalah, kabbalah, but the Americanized version is Kabbalah.
Speaker 2:Kabbalah. Yep, I think you can. You know what and say people say Kabbalah. Yeah, they were switching back and forth.
Speaker 1:People use whatever, but Kabbalah is the actual thing, but it's rabbi approved either way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you say it the other way.
Speaker 1:So for the purposes of this episode we can interchange, yeah, so I won't have to pause every time where I'm like I'm about to say it, I'm about to say it correctly, yeah, because people know it either way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So we're getting right into the occult I know, which you know we both love, kind of that.
Speaker 1:That's why we're here. That's like what we love.
Speaker 2:That's why we're here. Yeah, no, I read it and then I was like, ooh, I need to know more, because I actually I don't know if I ever thought about the Kabbalah, have you I?
Speaker 1:mean I just never have, but in the way that most people that lived through the early 2000s from Ashton Kutcher and Madonna. Do you remember?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you probably were like living. I don't know, but for a while she was like really Madonna was really into it and like Ashton Kutcher was seen like wearing all white. You know, in like People magazine. They're like it's a trend in Hollywood. Oh really, the Kabbalah Center in Los Angeles that started which at the time.
Speaker 1:I was like, okay, you know rich people doing their thing. When I was learning more about it through reading this, the commentary and then some of the podcasts and listening to some lectures, I was like, oh, that is so tacky.
Speaker 2:They're like I want to get into that, but this is why. But it is super interesting, it's crazy interesting.
Speaker 1:I actually really liked what I learned about it Same. It also shows that it's something that's like open to total interpretation, because some of the when I was looking into it, there were some podcasts that were like using the Kabbalah to increase wealth you know like using it for real estate and you're like OK. Yeah yeah, apparently a free forfor-all, because it isn't actually a religion. It's a way of explaining the different phases and components of the life that we can see and what is unseen.
Speaker 2:I like to think of it as kind of like your mind, and so it goes in layers. The Kabbalah, it's like a tree of life. So there's, you know you can have nothingness. Then a little bit of something, then an idea, and then the idea builds and, honestly, isn't that actually what we're doing Exactly? And I was like this is like. This makes sense to me. Yes, and it was written in like only 200 BC. 200 BC like only 200 years before Christ.
Speaker 1:The other explanation that I really like was this one rabbi was on there talking about it, and this is. It was a video titled like Do you have to Be 40 Years Old to Listen?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, To Read the Kabbalah yeah.
Speaker 1:And, but they explained it as it is. Think of it like how there's dark matter in the universe. So the Kabbalah is the dark matter of religion. Oh, you know, it's the things that are unseen. Oh yeah, but it's still a huge force, so it is possible that's the thing that's hard to get past, so like you can't see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a thing that's hard to connect because you're like it's not like if people follow, you know the Kabbalah, they aren't Christian or they aren't Jewish. It can be a supplementary way of still practicing those religions.
Speaker 2:I would love to see how it's written, though, so I've read about it, but, like, I would love to see how it reads. You know like the Bible can be read literary. Well, it has to be read in Hebrew, I believe, yeah, which is a whole thing I learned about the. Hebrew. From what I heard, that won't be easy. Hebrew is very difficult. They said it's close to a chemical language. Yeah so, and all the letters correspond in numbers. And so you can add things up. It's interesting, it is very interesting, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1:And, of course, this podcast is to talk about the responses in the Women's Bible. But we couldn't help but go check all this stuff out. I was even stuck at the first, her first sentence, which says the bible is an occult book, and a remarkable one when I say first I'm talking about our gal francis, francis feb.
Speaker 2:Did we, did I say francis, did you? Yeah, did you learn anything about her?
Speaker 1:but that's okay.
Speaker 2:So before that, so occult okay so she's the only one that talks. This is her entire.
Speaker 1:She's the only one that talks. This is her entire. She's the only one that writes about. She writes this whole commentary on the Kabbalah and when I first saw that word occult, it reminded me I'm like it's so fun being raised especially like coming of age in the 90s, you know, with like satanic panic.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah and all that, and Ozzy just died.
Speaker 1:I know Rest in peace, rest in rock, rest in rock that when I hear a cult I just immediately go to like the negative and devil. And even though I know it's not, but just your initial feeling of it, and I'm like I wonder, like what that meant back then.
Speaker 2:Oh, did you look it up? Yeah, of course I did, I love it.
Speaker 1:I'm going to slam around here, but it means the same. I'm like let me just check my files.
Speaker 2:Hey, you got all those notes.
Speaker 1:I know, I want to know.
Speaker 2:Has it changed?
Speaker 1:The original use of it was to study things that were unseen, or the spiritual realm, things that are unseen, which, by itself saying occult, there's not like negative connotations to that. It's just more like. That's what it is Like. An occultist is somebody that is interested in the spiritual world and the unseen and some of the stuff that I found I'm like. Some of the stuff I found online is that there was a change, like in the nineties, for different uses of it 1890s, 1990s.
Speaker 2:As soon as I said 90s, I was like girl, you better specify In the 1990s.
Speaker 1:But it has changed over time in what people associate with it. You know negative connotations and stuff. Cindy, the producer cat, is here. She might have felt some spirits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was like we talking about the occult, bring me in, sister, Bring me in, she's like bring me in.
Speaker 1:So occultism, hidden or supernatural knowledge and powers. Occultism in the 1800s really emphasized esoteric knowledge and remember in the late 1800s there was all that spiritualism. And in the spiritualism. Part of that was meant. That's where they had all the stances and were meant to communicate with spirits. Yeah, yeah, so occultism is the umbrella, spiritualism is just like a section of that.
Speaker 2:So basically, the unseen as it pertains to Victorian times. The unseen.
Speaker 1:Yes, the unseen. Okay, but occult is from the Latin word occultus, and it means clandestine, hidden, secret, knowledge of the hidden. So that's what occult means and that's yeah.
Speaker 2:So the people that could read this? That's why they say it's esoteric language. Only certain people can read it and interpret it, which I find you know anything like that. I'm like why would only certain people?
Speaker 1:be able to read that, because that means that you can always have somebody in power.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't like that.
Speaker 1:The person with the knowledge has the power.
Speaker 2:I'm really ready for the kumbaya part.
Speaker 1:I know what happened to kumbaya, I know, but by that definition, frances, she's right, the Bible isn't a cult book. Yeah, yeah, it just seems shocking to say now, but it's true, but actually the more I think about it.
Speaker 2:So Moses on the mountain obviously was doing all sorts of magic stuff. Fire all this stuff. He got the tablets of the Ten Commandments. This he also got, but nothing written down. It was all oral.
Speaker 1:Right, that's the part that's fascinating.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. And who told him? Who told him Was?
Speaker 1:it a Joanna's making a hand motion from the sky. Was it To her temple. Yes, from the sky to her temple.
Speaker 2:Where did it come the universe? So yeah, it was handed down just orally. There was nothing written.
Speaker 1:So why were the rules written and why was the Kabbalah not written? And this is where we're starting to see the division between you know religion, which is more like controlled rules, rules and ways to live, and then spirituality.
Speaker 2:So well, I really think the Kabbalah is the way to go after I'm like you're like we should all just start doing the Kabbalah. I know I mean, it made sense to me. It even talked about the angels being part of you. We are it, and this planet we're on is the chosen place.
Speaker 1:In this part of the tree. Yeah, I'll try to put a picture, try. I will put a link to the tree that they show for the top of it, because it builds it's layers of spirituality?
Speaker 2:I guess yeah, From the unknown to the known.
Speaker 1:The fact that it was, that it's set up in a tree reminded me. And we're not even getting to the women's Bible thing yet but it reminded me of. Are you familiar with the Norse mythology? I mean a little bit. That whole thing is based on a tree. Oh the tree of it's like a tree of life. I'm bad at pronouncing this stuff. It's Yggdrasil.
Speaker 2:Mm.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying it, it's Y-G-G-Yggdrasil.
Speaker 2:Well, if it's Hebrew, you're not going to be able to. Well, this is Nordic, this is like Norse mythology.
Speaker 1:Okay, but isn't that crazy that, like Norse mythology involves like a huge tree and an eagle, and then there is a squirrel, a magical squirrel that runs between the levels of the tree and the levels of this tree. In Norse mythology is about the different layers of perception and spirituality and life on the planet. And I'm like that's kind of it all. There's so many repeat stories or repeating narrative motifs. Yes, I love that and, just like you had mentioned, with the tarot, yeah, yeah, the tarot, the tarot.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize the symbols on tarot cards correspond to the Kabbalah, like the the knives, the knives and um the wands, yeah so there's 10 of each card.
Speaker 2:Is that what they said?
Speaker 1:and and each of the cards does correspond to the see that when I heard them, like I need to double check that. But I've I've always loved tarot for that reason, because it there. It ties into so many different religious traditions that it just shows you that all religions have a birth, sin, redemption, you know a rebirth story, and that's the major arcana of the tarot. That's what if you walk through it? You?
Speaker 2:know you start with the fool. Now, you've studied that because you do that. You do so how long have you been?
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh, I've had. I had a tarot, my first tarot deck, I think I had like 19. Okay, and now that I'm 25. For a good long while.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I liked it, for I mean, I do, I like the woo-woo stuff a bit, but even more for that like storytelling. And then also you know oh gosh, I'm losing my words what is it? You know, almost like narrative therapy. There's just so many repeat stories that people need to hear and retell to like comfort I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to explain our existence, I'm telling you we do need a lot of comfort. I've learned that.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's very much the other thing. I was thinking of you when you brought the tarot and the tarot again. The major arcana is the hero's journey.
Speaker 2:Oh, it like absolutely is if you go through it, it follows that.
Speaker 1:You know, joseph campbell, I know, I know they all, it all goes together. That's the background of the kabbalah.
Speaker 2:But my favorite thing about this whole section was that men and women in the Kabbalah it's more non-binary right.
Speaker 1:That's the part that's in the women's Bible. For a reason, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know we talked about that in Genesis way back in our like first, you know, second episode. This really comes into men and women are one, equal and that really humans, everybody's both, everybody's both, everybody has both qualities.
Speaker 1:Yes, In fact I'm sure we have highlighted a lot. So now we're actually to the part in the woman's Bible about. Francis and I told you I looked her up. She's from Connecticut. She started the first Women's Suffrage Association in Connecticut. She was also one of the few especially of the Women's Bible contributors that actually lived long enough to see women's suffrage.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank goodness, some of them did.
Speaker 1:And she was a writer and organizer. It says here you know, writer, speaker, reporter, stenographer, journalist, activist, frances Ellen Burr has done more to popularize. I'm having a hard time talking. Popularize, that's a hard word. Popular Okay, I want to be popular. Did you know that neurodivergent people often slur their words?
Speaker 2:Because they talk so dang fast.
Speaker 1:That's why I'm like I need to slow down. We're not in a race, yeah, but I am excited to tell you this and then we can get to talking about it another time. So Frances Ellen Burr has done more to popularize the question of women's suffrage than anyone else in the state of Connecticut.
Speaker 2:Isn't that awesome, it's just totally cool. You know what I'm interested in with all these ladies. I want I do. I know I've mentioned this before, but I would love to hear from their ancestors Like, what did the women in their families aspire? Where did they end up? Can we do that? As like, a as like.
Speaker 1:And do any of you out there know Any ancestors? Does anybody know anything? So yeah, frances, she's awesome. We hadn't seen any of her writing before this.
Speaker 2:No, and this must be her jam.
Speaker 1:I did Well, and that's what I was trying to find out. I'm like why is this her jam? Couldn't find anything specific, so if anybody knows, let me know why is this her?
Speaker 2:thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but also, that was just the tradition.
Speaker 1:I'm sure a lot of these women's rights activists were into, you know, taking down, taking down the Bible not taking down the Bible this is the other term that I learned is there was a trend in this type of criticism, which was called specifically higher criticism. Higher criticism it's actually like what they? That was the methodology when they went back to look at the Bible. So in the 19th century it was more like they were looking at it historically and through the eyes of how it was written at that time, instead of just like whatever it was, God wrote it.
Speaker 2:So there must have been a split there in the religions. Yes, Because, like I told you, the Episcopal people seem to be right on the same track as these ladies, Like they went. Their allegory, their stories. There's lessons, but if you're getting anything besides like we need to help the poor and do then you're not following anything in any version.
Speaker 1:You're like you're not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, and it's more and more. I see more and more of these Episcopalians coming out and just saying no, please stop. And even Catholics are coming out and speaking out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with the help from the new pope, who is, you know, a woke Marxist pope, as woke as he can be for a religion that doesn't allow women in leadership. But you know, anyways.
Speaker 2:But these ladies I mean they were in the forefront, these, out of all the women in the United States, these women were well known, they were going to the Capitol, they were speaking out, they were saying we know that religion is in our laws, we know that and that's fine. But at least get it right and see that women have been equal since the beginning. Right there, there's never been a thing that said men were above us or that we need to obey men, that's. That's never been a thing. And the kabbalah just takes it a next step.
Speaker 1:I think yes, that's she has. Okay, so let's get into like. So let's get into this, even though we're in it. We're in it, but I have so many things you know underlined here it was great, it was fascinating, but, like I said, I had never so it's the elo.
Speaker 1:The eloem is both the masculine and feminine, and that is the deity. The word eloem is plural, formed from the feminine singular, al-elo. By adding i-m to the word In the Kabbalah, we find that the Ancient of Days conforms himself simultaneously into the father and the mother and thus begets the son. Now, this mother is Elohim Mm-hmm. The writer then goes on to show that the Holy Spirit, usually represented as masculine, is in fact feminine.
Speaker 2:See yeah usually represented as masculine, is in fact feminine, see, yeah Well, the sephiria is one of the links of the tree, correct?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah so it's one of the. There's a sephiroth. All these are the ten calabastical attributes of God, I love that.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I got that, I know, and she's quoting Mr Mathers. Oh, yeah, I got that, I know, and she's quoting.
Speaker 2:Mr Mathers oh yeah, mcgregor Mathers. To the stress laid by the Kabbalah on the feminine aspects of the deity and to the shameful way in which any allusion to these has been suppressed in the ordinary translations of the Bible. Also, to the Kabbalistical equality of male and female equality.
Speaker 1:I know, and he says suppressed in the ordinary translations. Yeah, I know, and he says suppressed in the ordinary translations yes, yes, and that is what Francis specifically focuses a lot on this point yeah, that there isn't a separation and there's not a hierarchy of you know who's the most godlike and who should be in charge. It's like everybody is both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's time you wake up, folks Wake up party people, Wake up folks.
Speaker 1:There is the origin of evil. Yeah, 2025.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, men are trying to take over again and you can't do it. You can't, it's just not. It's not okay, it's against the whole universe. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's against everything that makes us human meaning.
Speaker 2:We are one, we are equal. No one bows to another is meaning we are one, we are equal, no one bows to another.
Speaker 1:I'm like they are. So it's shukma the father, baina the mother, and therein are the shukma and baina. So it's wisdom and understanding, counterbalanced together in the most perfect equality of male and female. And therefore are all things established in the equality of male and female. If it were not so, how could they subsist? How, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Believe that, and she's talking, and this is why I'm spaced out for a second, because I believe she's still talking about MacGregor Mathers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he wrote. He did a translation of the Kabbalah. Oh, there you go. The most recent one, or most recent Then In the 1880s? Yeah, most recent. Okay, 130 years old, yeah.
Speaker 1:And did you see in here. So she's talking about, and I do believe she's still talking about, the Mather's work. So, and hence, that which is not both male and female together is called a half a body.
Speaker 1:Now no blessing can rest upon a mutilated and defective being, but only upon a perfect place and upon a perfect being, and not at all. An incomplete being and a semi-complete being cannot live forever, neither can it receive a blessing forever. That's not as hot as this other thing. I'm like I'm going to have to delete that out. The following is the author's comment on the above. This section is another all-sufficient proof of the teachings maintained throughout the Kabbalah, Namely sorry, throughout the Kabbalah, namely that man and woman are, from the creation, co-equal and co-existent, perfectly equal one with the other. This fact, the translators of the Bible have been at great pains to conceal by carefully suppressing every reference to the feminine portion of the deity and by constantly translating feminine nouns by masculine and this is the work of so-called religious men.
Speaker 1:How dare they? I mean really yeah. We could have just read that paragraph. That's actually all I wanted to say about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. How dare they Look at it?
Speaker 1:How dare they? And that is not. And, by the way, that is not Francis's quote. That is from the gentleman Mathers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's his comment.
Speaker 1:He says that when he's like. He's stating that translators carefully suppressed every reference to the feminine portion of the deity, every reference to the feminine portion of the deity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, constantly translating feminine nouns by masculine I, just I.
Speaker 1:It makes me so mad because we're still dealing with it, because because of a terrible translation right, well, also, I mean, it was an evil, it was a, because it was yeah, it was a power translation or a concerted effort to use spirituality as a way to I just don't know why they turned on us Back in biblical times they could just grab and enslave them.
Speaker 1:In current times that's not so accepted, although we're going back towards that, but that's not so accepted. So there's other ways to enslave, and that is by changing how women think of themselves in the social order, how they're able to participate in the economy. Right yeah.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Ooh, mm-hmm, that's deep and how childbirth and childcare is treated here. There is a reason that nobody ever steps up to give like free childcare or to like a year off.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:To take care of if you have kids and stuff.
Speaker 2:so they just want you, filled with lots of guilt if you, if you do. Yeah, it is weird, but these ladies knew it. Um, yeah, I wanted she talks about the rib story. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, so we're getting back. I'm like getting back into the, into the kabbalah. They call this the throbbing heart of the jewish religion, but the rib story from the old testament is veiled in the mystic language of symbolism.
Speaker 2:According to occult teachings, there was a time before man was differentiated into sexes, that is, when he was androgynous. Then the time came, millions of years ago, when the differentiation into sexes took place, and that is what the Rib story refers. There has been much ignorance and confusion in regard to the real nature of woman, indicating that she is possessed of a mystic nature and a power which will gradually be developed and better understood as the world becomes more enlightened. Woman has been branded as the author of evil in the world and, at the same time, she's been exalted to the position of mother or of the savior of the world. These two positions are as conflicting as the general ideas which have prevailed in regard to women, the great enigma of the world. And that is so true. We're an enigma.
Speaker 1:It is an enigma because at the same we're like we're the ones that brought all the sin of the world and that is so true.
Speaker 2:We're an enigma.
Speaker 1:It is an enigma, because at the same, we're like. We're the ones that brought all the sin and the evil. They're like also they have all the babies Also. What does that mean? What does that mean?
Speaker 2:And you brought Jesus into the world, like later, I know, like how can that be? How can we bring the evil? And it doesn't make sense because you're one, you are androgynous.
Speaker 1:Correct, I had this whole thing underlined from this Reverend Didi. It says theological odium has laid its hand heavily upon her and odium is evil, or like General widespread hate. Yeah, thank you, not evil. Yeah, general widespread hate which, yeah, we are still focusing on that you're not evil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, general widespread hate which, yeah, we are still focusing on that. This odium is a thing with more horns, more thorns, more quills and more snarls than almost any other sort of thing you have ever heard of. It has kindled as many fires of martyrdom. It has slipped noose as many ropes for the necks of well-meaning men. It has built as many racks for the dislocation of human bones. It has forged as many thumb screws. It has built as many dungeons. It has ostracized as many scholars and philosophers.
Speaker 1:It has set itself against light and pushed as hard to make the earth revolve the other way on its axis as any other force of mischief of whatever name or kind, and he is talking about that specifically putting women as like an enigma by obfuscating the feminine deity. So when I read that I was like so again, this is over. Like 130 years ago they were like this yeah, that's how bad.
Speaker 2:And that was a reverend.
Speaker 1:That's how serious this, overlooking this contrivance? This om yeah, of the feminine divine, or the feminine, the deity yeah, they're like they're, like that's.
Speaker 2:Nothing is as bad as that nothing but yeah, this is where I got sad though, because she was like well, hopefully, you know, in the future we don't, since we are, since we're talking about this, since a reverend is saying these things, you know we're going to progress. And she says here and it is the fearful, fearful thing with women has to contend when she is free from it, we may be assured that the dawn of a new day is not far off, 1895, it's 2025.
Speaker 2:I know that same thing too and we're so far off right. It just it made me super sad. It just it made me super sad. I feel like. I feel like we're like, I feel like the slingshot is getting super duper pulled back and that not everybody is as concerned as they should be.
Speaker 1:But we're hoping to make people very concerned.
Speaker 2:I want you to be concerned.
Speaker 1:You need to be very concerned. So we have Francis talking about like hopefully it'll be you know better in the future and we've seen that before right and other responses throughout the Old testament in the women's bible, and it made me curious and I think we've asked this before, like well, what happened? There was this trend for a while in the 19th century, people chopping up bibles, looking at it, using this, this um structure of higher criticism higher criticism well then, what happened?
Speaker 1:we've asked that before and what I've found so far is there was a period of this higher criticism where they were trying to, you know, apply this very Victorian like scientific knowledge, darwin, all these new ideas, and that was followed by people that went and they're like, well, we're going to go find hard proof. It was like this archaeological period where they were like, said they found things that disproved these higher criticism theories, where they're like so actually this did happen and like Noah's Ark was right here.
Speaker 2:In Tennessee? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:It's in Tennessee. I'm definitely like very much simplifying that, but they were looking for artifacts, yeah, so it was this archaeological period this whole. What year. This is a trend, so this would have been in the early 1900s. Okay, right, so right after, so right after the higher criticism.
Speaker 2:They were like wait a minute, these ladies. We got to stamp them down. I know they're wrong.
Speaker 1:So they did a bunch of stuff to you know, debunk or diffuse the higher criticism. However, later, later and this is a very general again, check the show notes but then later, even that kind of that was those things were debunked a lot of this like archaeological proof.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so anyway, they're like this is not the face of jesus on this cloth, peeps although I think that still exists, doesn't? It.
Speaker 1:I hope so, doesn't someone have that I just.
Speaker 2:You know, my favorite book about Jesus was written by Anne Rice.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God yeah what was it?
Speaker 2:It's called Jesus. It was a series Really great books and you know I love.
Speaker 1:Anne Rice. Vampire Gal, oh yeah. And you know I love vampires. Vampire gal, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was obsessed with. I've seen her house in New Orleans.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was obsessed with Interview with a Vampire. So when she came out with these books on Jesus because she became religious in her old age Did you know that she did? She did, and so and I know how she researched things because I read about her as an author, because I was like, how'd she write these books? Because that's the kind of person I am. But she would do like crazy research and she would sit upstairs and like not talk to people for days and just like read, read, read, read, read, right.
Speaker 1:So I was like this is going to be We'd get along with her so well, I would too, but, yeah, she wrote the series on Jesus.
Speaker 2:It was really well done so. And then, speaking of other books, so the last part of this Frances talks about. It wasn't the Kodachrome Bible that I said last week, but I love that you said it and I thought of you.
Speaker 1:So she talks about these other. She said what is known as higher criticism, to clear away the clouds of superstition which have enveloped the Bible.
Speaker 2:The church, the Bible, the church and the.
Speaker 1:Bible and she brings up the polychrome.
Speaker 2:Bible yeah.
Speaker 1:Isn and she brings up the polychrome Bible. Yeah, isn't that cool. I don't know if that's ever been finished. We'll check on that, I wonder. I mean it probably has. It's been 100 years, how long does it take?
Speaker 2:Well, who knows what if they stopped it? What if like yeah, so it began in 1890. It would probably not be completed before 1900. Yeah, different.
Speaker 1:So it's the word meaning in which the text, the notes, the dates and translations are printed for the sake of simplifying matters, To make it easier to read.
Speaker 2:I don't think they would have wanted us to have that, Because they do keep saying like there are gems in this book. There's gems that people should live by, yes, but they are covered up by so much misinformation. Yeah, there's actually. That's what this Kabbalah chapter shows us.
Speaker 1:So this convinces me even more that there is purposeful misinformation in the translations which we are I mean I guess we did just spend the last 16 episodes talking about that and they were hoping because people were doing this higher criticism.
Speaker 2:The other book, the Bible and the Child, went over and kind of how to. It wasn't for a child to read, it was how should you introduce the Bible to your child? An English writer outside of the Orthodox Pale says, quote it is one of the most extraordinary books published in the English language. It is small, but it is just the turning scale to the side of common sense in matters religious. The church has at last taken a step in the right direction. We cannot expect it to set off at a gallop, but it is fairly ambling along in its comfortable pelfrey.
Speaker 1:I love that word. Yeah, I wish Comfortable pelfrey.
Speaker 2:I wish they would have galloped, though I know you can gallop.
Speaker 1:So she's talking about the. It's a book, it's called the Bible and the Child and the eight contributors are headed by Canon FW Farrar of England. We got to look that up, I mean we need to get a copy.
Speaker 2:What'd you find out? Well, I just looked him up. Guess what? He was born in India. So, if you didn't know, india was under British rule for, like ever, like many areas in India are very European, like the Himalayas are like basically Europe in the mountains, because they were missing their climate and they went up there and built places like Landor and places like that. But he was born in Bombay but moved to England and he was a writer, but he wrote about. He even wrote his Life of Christ the Life of Christ, 1874. And it was really popular. So he's a very popular guy and it ran through 30 editions Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and then he became the canon of Westminster Abbey and then an archdeacon, and so what is canon? So canon is basically he's the head of the church. Okay yeah, in Westminster Abbey.
Speaker 1:Yes, and here in so in Francis is talking about. This is where it's like she winds up talking about how higher criticism you know in these lofty goals of how we're going to gallop forward and the changes are going to be made. And Cannon-Farr says that the manner in which the higher criticism has progressed quote is exactly analogous to the way in which the truths of astronomy and geology have triumphed over universal opposition. They were once anathematized as infidel. They are now accepted as axiomatic.
Speaker 2:Isn't that?
Speaker 1:great, unquestionable, unquestionable, unquestionable.
Speaker 2:Although in 2025, we have again slid back and, sadly, astronomy and geology are not so axiomatic across the board, which is a little unnerving.
Speaker 1:That's why I have such, I got such a thing about the term common sense and that is what? Again, if you look at the extreme right, they will take a hold of that term and it really is. It's like common sense for who? Whereas this higher criticism is like we're trying to apply these common sense life things through.
Speaker 2:By the way, there's like a fruit fly in here. It's fine, do you see it? I can't see it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's even better if you're like sure, Sarah's very into that. She's just wiping the spirits around her face and she brings up free thought and free criticism and you know the Victorian era is so awesome and that's why I won't read her.
Speaker 2:The last paragraph here is but I won't Wait, don't read the last. Because him saying that and saying oh, obviously you know we're progressing and this is why we need this book for the children, because there is this higher criticism. It all makes sense, right, right, that we got to this point and it's time to evolve, basically, and then because the way that FEB writes it. She says when an official of the Church of England, of the high standing of Canon Farrar, comes out so boldly in the interest of free thought and free criticism on the lines here to here, to held to be too sacred for human reason to cross, it is one of the quote sign of the times and a most hopeful one for the future. And I just put a sad face.
Speaker 1:I put what changed? Question mark question mark yes, I feel sad, I know. And you see. And then the next paragraph. She said and now that we are coming to understand the Bible better than to worship it as an idol, it will gradually be lifted from the shadows and the superstitions of an age when, as fetish, fetish, same thing, oh, is it Okay? Old English fetish, oh, I like that. Incorporate that freely, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Old.
Speaker 1:English fetish. Oh, I like that Incorporate that freely as a fetish. It was exalted above reason and placed where a spiritually enlightened people can see it in its true light. A book in which many a bright jewel has been buried under some rubbish Rubbish Perhaps, as well as under many symbolisms and mystic language. A book which is not above the application of reason and common sense. How things have changed.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's like too much, though knowledge Like that in the future progression does like really like slingshot. I think so Us like into, like, like I said, peace and happiness.
Speaker 1:So Frances Ellen Burr she was a writer. I have looked for some of her other work because I'm like I really loved this whole piece, so hopefully those of you that have the book check it out. Um, and it just makes me ache, this last paragraph, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:a little. Yes, I'm telling you. I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna cry because there was so much promise in this book, so much hope, and like they were on the precipice of a great awakening.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're precipicing right now. Which way it'll go, I don't know, but I think I mean it is you know what, though it is something we joke about it. They wrote this 130 years ago. Yeah, I know we're not the only ladies talking about it.
Speaker 2:We're not no, so it does stand, it's here. We are dangling, we're dangling we could go either way.
Speaker 1:Yep, so she writes. We are nearing the close of a remarkable century, the last half of which, and especially the last quarter, has been crowded with discoveries, some of them startling in their approximation to the inner or occult world, a world in which women has a potent sway.
Speaker 1:The close of this century has long been pointed to by scholars, by writers and by prophets within the church and out of it, as the close of the old dispensation and the opening of a new one. And in the view of the rapid steps in which we are taking in these latter years, we can almost feel the breath of the new cycle fan our cheeks as we watch the deepening hues of the breaking dawn. Damn girl that is so that is bold.
Speaker 2:I want to be on the breaking dawn.
Speaker 1:We can't. We're on the breaking dawn. Let's just declare it this is it. This is bold. I want to be on the breaking dawn. We're on the breaking dawn. Let's just declare it. This is it. This is it.
Speaker 2:We will not go back.
Speaker 1:I love this too, and so importantly, the occult world, a world in which women have potent sway.
Speaker 2:Potent sway.
Speaker 1:The occult world is where women hold sway, because we do have the unseen power.
Speaker 2:I mean, I definitely think the feminine has more um, like, we sense things in our inner. We're more open to the spiritual, to the things that can't be seen right. Absolutely, emotions, we feel things.
Speaker 1:We maybe too much, but like well, our bodies literally create humans from we don't know where yeah, we don't know.
Speaker 2:We don't know from elohim?
Speaker 1:I don't know whatever, yeah, and yes, so we're like the literal, like body pathways between the unseen and then the physical world yes however, it doesn't have to be like women have that, so we're like superior. It's more like we cannot be separate we cannot do a hierarchy of like, well, men are better because they can beat people up, or like women are better because they can. It's like no, we need both we have to be together.
Speaker 2:We have to be together.
Speaker 1:It makes the whole thing work after all of this it is going to be hard to transition from all this esoterica. I know because I cultism I actually really like this.
Speaker 2:I did too.
Speaker 1:I'm like into it, I'm like dang.
Speaker 2:Actually, this is what I've been needing in my life.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, like we may you know what it's our podcast.
Speaker 2:We can keep going but we're gonna stay in the cabula we're not going to like.
Speaker 1:No, that would be a bonus, whatever. Bonus Kabbalah Bonus, tiktok, whatever. So, yeah, it's going to be hard to transition from all this esoterica and occultism and back to planet Earth or planet New Testament, anyway, yeah, right, next week. But we believe in our Victorian feminists' ability to bring sass and magic to their analysis.
Speaker 2:Magical sass I love it.
Speaker 1:It's a good thing. The New Testament is going to be good, really good.
Speaker 2:I believe we'll be kicking it off with the book of Matthew. We'll be sure to pack up the show notes this week with all of the different sources we mentioned. As always and forever, we'd love to hear from you. Check the episode description for how to reach out to us through text or voicemail.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we've got a fun Name that Victorian Feminist by Her Initials. Co-host quiz on TikTok and YouTube. So good, we are, so fun. We are fun. In case you can't tell, join us. Yeah, a great way to resist fascism is to support independent media. So like, comment, subscribe and share this podcast liberally.
Speaker 2:Just like share it out all the time, sometimes twice a day. That's what we recommend. I do, you know it's better than a vitamin Sharing podcasts helping the artist community. So thank you for listening and we'll catch you next week here on the tastiest podcast of 2025.
Speaker 1:Biting all the apples, thank you.
